Legislature(2005 - 2006)CAPITOL 106
04/04/2006 08:00 AM House STATE AFFAIRS
| Audio | Topic |
|---|---|
| Start | |
| HB461 | |
| HB290 | |
| HB496 | |
| Adjourn |
* first hearing in first committee of referral
+ teleconferenced
= bill was previously heard/scheduled
+ teleconferenced
= bill was previously heard/scheduled
| *+ | HB 496 | TELECONFERENCED | |
| += | HB 461 | TELECONFERENCED | |
| += | HB 290 | TELECONFERENCED | |
| += | HB 438 | TELECONFERENCED | |
| + | TELECONFERENCED |
HB 290-REQUIREMENTS FOR DRIVER'S LICENSE/I.D. 8:34:37 AM CHAIR SEATON announced that the next order of business was HOUSE BILL NO. 290, "An Act relating to issuance of identification cards and to issuance of driver's licenses." 8:36:02 AM REPRESENTATIVE LYNN, as sponsor, reviewed that the bill would require a person to have a legal presence in the U.S. in order to be issued an Alaska driver's license. He stated that he would hate to see the bill complicated with several amendments. 8:36:58 AM MATTHEW KERR testified on behalf of himself in opposition to HB 290. He paraphrased from his written testimony [included in the committee packet], which read as follows [original punctuation provided]: Good morning once again, Mr. Chairman and Committee Members! Thank you for having me here. This process has all been very educational. I've been thinking that maybe I should quit my day job! I'm sure all of you are aware of my opposition to this bill. I've done a lot of research in the past few weeks, and so I'm not here just to repeat my previous testimony. I hope it will be as interesting to you as it was for me to write it. Before I start, I want to give a fuller disclosure about why I've chosen to oppose this bill. I am not for illegal immigration, and I do in fact support criminally charging employers who hire illegal labor, and removing illegal immigrants in most situations when they are discovered. I am friends with some legally-present foreign students, but that has given me far more insight than bias. The reasons I oppose this bill are actually much more selfish. 8:39:47 AM This bill does not discourage illegal immigration or terrorism. It targets the wrong people, and it is not enforceable. In reality, passing this bill would actually decrease our public safety. I will explain these reasons to you. This bill does not discourage illegal immigration. I cannot imagine that people intending to stay here illegally would present themselves to the DMV for a license in the first place. Even if they did, early expiration of their driver's license would not realistically cause them to leave. California's current illegal population is prima facie proof of this. They are not starved for identification, as passports and foreign licenses are completely valid documents used for driving, flying, buying a beer, and opening a bank account. This bill does not discourage terrorism. Fifteen of the nineteen hijackers were legally present on Sept 11. If those last four hadn't had their driver's licenses, they would have used their passports to board their flights. Also, more acts of terrorism have been committed in this country by American citizens than by foreigners. Remember Ted Kaczynski (the Unabomber), David Koresh, Timothy McVeigh, some members of PETA, the Animal Liberation Front, the Earth Liberation Front, etc. In the Senate Finance Committee, Senator Huggins recalled the recent sad events involving Mohammed Reza Taheri-Azar, the UNC graduate who drove his rental car into a group of students "to avenge Muslims," as an example of terrorism that this bill could have prevented. This man immigrated to the US in 1985 as was either a permanent resident or a U.S. citizen. He was kicked out of his fraternity due to excessive drug and alcohol use. His problems are related to mental illness; not his nationality or immigration status. He would not have been affected by this legislation in any way. This brings us to my next point. This bill targets the wrong people. By far, our largest group of long-term non-immigrant visitors is foreign students. They are the ones that will be subject to repeated, annual license renewals. Foreign students are a major presence in the US at the graduate level in the fields of math, engineering, and science. They are typically the cream of the crop from their home countries, and it gets even better. They're paying full price - subsidizing tuition rates for our students! - because they are not usually eligible for scholarships, financial aid, or resident tuition pricing. Foreign students generate $13 billion in yearly revenue in the US. They are the model of the kind of person we want immigrating to our country (legally, of course). Unfortunately, the extra paperwork and processing at the national level has already caused these students to study elsewhere. Berkeley had 950 international graduate students in 1999, and 425 - less than half! - by 2005. Last April, Bill Gates announced during a Library of Congress forum that Microsoft is shifting more work overseas as a direct result of fewer foreigners studying and staying in the US. I agree with valid security measures to keep out terrorists during the visa process, but this bill doesn't prevent terrorism. There is already a federal computer system named "SEVIS" to monitor the status of foreign students in the US. It would certainly turn me off of a new country if I got to spend the night in jail because I overlooked my annual license renewal during finals week. Forcing foreign students to renew their driver's license annually does not make me any safer, but it does add another bureaucratic hoop that might make a student decide to go somewhere more tolerant. This bill is not enforceable. I am holding a passport of a legally-present foreign student. Inside, there is no US visa. This country, like many others, only issues passports for five years, so it had to be renewed while the student was already here. The US does not issue visas domestically. This piece of paper is the form that makes the student legally present in the US. It is hardly a tamper-proof document. It's no surprise that our immigration law is very complex, and many, many different types of documents and combinations thereof can prove legal status. When this student recently re-entered the US, the federal immigration officer had to scratch her head for a few minutes to recall the rules before approving the entry. I don't believe that the DMV will be as well equipped to make that determination. Imagine that scenario at the DMV in your mind. So far, I've told you about what this bill won't do. What this bill will do is reduce public safety on our roads. This reasoning applies to all long-term foreigners and not just students. How many people in the US have been killed or injured by illegal immigrants or acts of terrorism? How many people are killed or injured on our roads each day due to unsafe driving and uninsured drivers? The primary fallacy of this bill is that it assumes that people can only drive here legally with a domestic driver's license. The standard operating procedure to get licensed in Moscow involves handing a nice, crisp $50 bill to the test examiner. You can see this in their traffic fatality rates. We would all love for illegal immigration to disappear overnight. But realistically speaking, would you rather be driving on the road next to an illegal immigrant with an Alaska driver's license and driving record, or an illegal immigrant without either? 8:42:59 AM I have one last piece of research on that topic. The DMV official who testified in this committee last time said that it was possible for foreign-licensed or unlicensed drivers to obtain liability insurance. I called Geico, State Farm, Allstate, and AIG. I had one "No," two "I don't think so; call later," and one "Only for 30 days." For all intents and purposes, that effectively means that an illegal immigrant with an expired license would not be able to obtain liability insurance. For those reasons, this bill would decrease public safety. Currently, our DMV checks for legal entry to the US when a foreigner applies for a license, and they are treated the same way as everyone else thereafter. This system works fine. It's a good balance and it doesn't need to be changed. This legislation adds some bureaucracy at the DMV with the laudable goal of preventing illegal immigration and/or terrorism. Unfortunately, it effectively trades away a small piece of our safety without preventing either. It is not enforceable. It makes it more difficult for people that are legitimately here, without adding any actual deterrent to someone who isn't. I won't even bring up again the data security issues indirectly caused by this bill. Thank you again, Mr. Chairman and committee members, for your consideration of my testimony. I provided some of your offices with supporting documentation for my earlier testimony, and I have some spare copies with me today if any of you are interested. 8:44:03 AM One last item: The New Hampshire bill against the Real ID Act has passed their House with a vote of 270-84 and is now going through their Senate committees. I ask all of you again to vote against this bill. I would be happy to answer any questions. 8:44:15 AM REPRESENTATIVE LYNN asked Mr. Kerr if, through his research, he has been able to ascertain if any one could immigrate illegally to Canada or Mexico and be able to get a driver's license there. 8:45:00 AM MR. KERR responded that it would not be difficult to live illegally in Canada or Mexico, because a person could use his/her domestic licenses and passports and would not be subject to many immigration checks. As for other countries, Mr. Kerr said he does not know the licensing requirements, but he said he is aware anecdotally of an American citizen spending an extended time in Russia who obtained a license there. 8:45:28 AM REPRESENTATIVE LYNN specified, "If I illegally immigrated to Mexico, would I be able to get a Mexican driver's license?" 8:45:54 AM MR. KERR answered that corruption is a major issue in Mexico, and he speculated that if someone were to present him/herself at the Mexican department of motor vehicles, he/she would probably not have any trouble obtaining a driver's license, regardless of immigration status. 8:46:22 AM CHAIR SEATON said he thinks the witness is being asked to speculate beyond the scope of his research. 8:47:24 AM MR. KERR, in response to a question from Representative Gatto, said the passport he brought with him is a current passport for a foreign student legally present in the U.S., and it was issued within the U.S. by the foreign embassy of the student's country. 8:47:51 AM REPRESENTATIVE GATTO asked Mr. Kerr if he knows the reasons that New Hampshire voted down a similar bill. 8:48:23 AM MR. KERR replied that New Hampshire was voting against a broader bill that encapsulated other parts of the federal Real ID Act, including the gathering of licensing information into nationally accessible databases. 8:49:08 AM CHAIR SEATON recalled that Mr. Bannock, the director of the Division of Motor Vehicles, had testified during the last hearing of HB 290 that the division is planning to scan, verify, and archive information from the documents that people present for identification when applying for a license. 8:49:21 AM REPRESENTATIVE LYNN said he remembers the same. 8:49:35 AM MR. KERR indicated that he had just received a document that addresses the "nonidentification [driving] certificate." He said, "It seems to me like it could be a reasonable way of solving the problem, although I haven't looked into it in depth." 8:49:59 AM REPRESENTATIVE GATTO related that he knows a foreign exchange student from Norway who got a driver's license in the U.S., because it was so much less expensive than getting one in her country, and it would be valid in her country. He asked, "Does that compromise the Real ID [Act], the fact that ... it was so easy for her to get a driver's license in this country?" 8:51:17 AM CHAIR SEATON told Mr. Kerr that he does not want him to feel he has to testify beyond the area of his research or expertise. 8:51:21 AM MR. KERR responded by saying he believes it typically is standard that driver's licenses are based on "usual residence," irrespective of citizenship. He stated, "Because a foreign license is ... valid in most other countries up to some specified time, ... this effectively means that if someone wanted to drive legally in the U.S., ... they could ... easily use their home license effectively, indefinitely, because it's not marked on your license exactly when you enter the country." He added, "Also, it would be possible for someone to obtain a license in any number of third countries that have less stringent procedures than ours." 8:52:53 AM JAMES McCURTY, testifying on behalf of himself, addressed the bill's proposed language related to identification that would be required to obtain a commercial license. He indicated that there would be much time involved and inconvenience for a person to prove that he/she is a U.S. citizen. He mentioned the original Patriot Act. Mr. McCurty stated, "The federal government has not done their job. It's been pushed onto the state, and then you're just trying to dump it into my lap, to reaffirm that I'm an American, and a loyal American." 8:58:58 AM CHAIR SEATON, after ascertaining that there was no one else to testify, closed public testimony. 9:00:10 AM DUANE BANNOCK, Director, Division of Motor Vehicles, Department of Administration, in response to a question from Representative Gruenberg, confirmed that the current fiscal note is accurate. 9:00:35 AM REPRESENTATIVE GRUENBERG referred to an article in The New York Times, dated July 19, 2005, from the National Governors' Conference [included in the committee packet]. He said the article shows that various governors are concerned that the Real ID Act will have significant negative economical impact on state governments, will take considerable time to implement, and was "poorly thought through." He asked Mr. Bannock if he is aware of those concerns and, if so, why he has not addressed them in his fiscal note. 9:02:10 AM MR. BANNOCK explained that the concerns that Representative Gruenberg highlighted have to do with the Real ID Act, whereas his fiscal note relates solely to HB 290. He directed attention to the last line in the analysis section of the fiscal note, which read: "Other costs may be associated with the Real ID Act that will not be noted until later." He said his own opinion mirrors that of 49 other DMV directors, and that is that regulations are not sufficient "in order to be compliant in this section with this Real ID Act"; statutes are necessary. He said what is being made law is already current DMV practice. He said the bill would also allow the DMV to affix an expiration on a license for a legal alien to match the end of that person's legal stay in the U.S. Currently, all driver's licenses and identification cards issued by the DMV expire "on the fifth following birthday after issuance." 9:05:50 AM MR. BANNOCK, in response to Representative Gruenberg and Chair Seaton, said the regulations to which he previously alluded are: 13 AAC 08.330. He said the regulations have been around for a while. He stated, "If a person is in America legally, they will have documents as required by that regulation today." 9:07:01 AM CHAIR SEATON said he is concerned about requiring DMV staff to determine the validity of documents without sufficient training. He asked if Mr. Bannock is saying that the DMV staff is already conducting those checks. MR. BANNOCK answered yes. 9:08:11 AM MR. BANNOCK, in response to questions from Representative Gruenberg, said the DMV, by regulation, is already denying licenses to illegal aliens, and the statutory authority for that regulation is, he guessed, AS 28.15.221. 9:09:05 AM REPRESENTATIVE GRUENBERG said he is not aware of any such statute and, thus, is wondering if either the DMV's policy or regulation exceeds its statutory authority. 9:09:28 AM REPRESENTATIVE GARDNER asked Mr. Bannock to tell her, under current policy and practice, what the function and purpose of a driver's license is. 9:09:45 AM MR. BANNOCK said having a driver's license proves that a person has both the knowledge and the skill to operate an automobile. 9:10:29 AM REPRESENTATIVE LYNN stated his understanding that having a driver's license is a privilege, not a right. MR. BANNOCK said [the DMV] subscribes to the same concept. 9:11:02 AM REPRESENTATIVE GRUENBERG said he had looked up AS 28.15.221, and it addresses the point system. MR. BANNOCK corrected his previous estimation to say that the statute is actually [AS 28.15.061]. 9:11:20 AM REPRESENTATIVE GRUENBERG asked Mr. Bannock to specify where in the statute it gives authority to the DMV to deny licenses to illegal aliens. 9:11:34 AM MR. BANNOCK answered (b)(5), which read as follows: (5) contain other information that the department may reasonably require to determine the applicant's identity, competency, and eligibility. 9:11:59 AM REPRESENTATIVE GRUENBERG opined that none of the terms in paragraph (5) give the DMV the aforementioned legal authority. 9:12:32 AM MR. BANNOCK said that by regulation, if an illegal alien showed up at the DMV, he/she would not have the document that the DMV has the authority to use by regulation in order to establish his/her identity. CHAIR SEATON said the committee will ask for a legal opinion from the Department of Law. 9:13:17 AM REPRESENTATIVE GATTO asked if there is anything beyond taking a written test and a driving test that a person must do to qualify to receive a driver's license. 9:13:36 AM MR. BANNOCK answered that it is also necessary to verify both the person's age and identity. Some states use high school yearbook photos, for example, a practice that Mr. Bannock said the Alaska DMV has no intention of adopting. An application for a driver's license must contain the licensee's name, date and place of birth, and both mailing and residence addresses. He said, "So, before we issue the license based on that information, is it reasonable to suggest that we have some sort of verification of that before we issue the license? I suggest that, yes, we do." 9:14:54 AM REPRESENTATIVE GATTO related that his son had applied for a license using his student identification to support his identity. He indicated that he was with his son at the school at the time and merely verified verbally his son's identity and date of birth. He questioned the DMV using something that seems so "flimsy" for its verification. 9:16:04 AM MR. BANNOCK deferred the question to Kerry Hennings, the manager of DMV's Driver Licensing. 9:16:18 AM KERRY HENNINGS, Driver Licensing, Director's Office, Division of Motor Vehicles (DMV), Department of Administration, told Representative Gatto that in lieu of a birth certificate, DMV accepts a parent's affidavit and identification, which she surmised is what Representative Gatto offered during his son's application for his school ID. In response to a remark by Representative Gatto, she indicated that this manner of issuing an ID is not common, but is an exception for people who do not have their birth certificate but are accompanied by their parents. REPRESENTATIVE GATTO offered more details regarding that visit with his son. He explained that he wants to ferret out ways to cheat the system, because if there is a way, someone will. 9:18:37 AM MS. HENNINGS, not having been present during Representative Gatto's experience with his son, surmised that all the information that Representative Gatto brought with him would have been considered. 9:19:00 AM CHAIR SEATON referred to a handout in the committee packet showing "13 AAC 08.330 Requirements of applicant." One of the methods currently accepted as proof of date of birth is an out- of-state driver's license. He asked Ms. Hennings if that would change. MS. HENNINGS said the DMV has written new regulations it expects to be adopted during summer of 2006, at which point the out-of- state driver's license will not be used as a form of identification, but only will be used to show proof of the knowledge and skills to operate an automobile. 9:20:06 AM CHAIR SEATON noted other items listed under 13 AAC 08.330(b)(4) that he thought may no longer be accepted should the bill be adopted: a credit card, a life insurance policy, or "other evidence of comparable validity." He said he presumes a parent's affidavit would also be excluded. MS. HENNINGS said Chair Seaton is correct. CHAIR SEATON asked, "If this bill becomes law, what are the single pieces of documentation that you can use to prove U.S. citizenship before you can get an Alaska driver's license?" 9:20:58 AM MS. HENNINGS said she doesn't currently have a draft of the new regulations before her; however, she said she would get a list to the committee. That list includes: a birth certificate, a passport, and proof of birth abroad. 9:21:40 AM REPRESENTATIVE GRUENBERG asked Mr. Bannock if he can point to any authority for the DMV to eliminate the ability of an illegal alien to get a driver's license. 9:22:34 AM MR. BANNOCK responded that he does not have an answer for Representative Gruenberg without researching the issue. CHAIR SEATON asked Mr. Bannock to do that research and get back to the committee with it. 9:23:20 AM MR. BANNOCK, in response to follow-up questions from Representative Gruenberg, said he has not changed policy since taking on the position of director of the DMV, and there was written policy in effect when he became director, which established [denying driver's licenses to illegal aliens]. 9:23:45 AM CHAIR SEATON asked Mr. Bannock to send that information to the committee, as well. 9:25:20 AM MR. BANNOCK, in response to questions from Representative Gardner, said a person from Canada who did not have a Canadian driver's license could, with a passport and one other secondary piece of identification take both the written and skills test and be issued an Alaska driver's license. He said this method is particular to Canada only. Someone from any other country outside the U.S. who did not have a visa and was in the U.S. for a short visit probably would not be able to qualify for an Alaska driver's license. 9:26:08 AM REPRESENTATIVE GARDNER noted that there are people who have social security cards that are stamped valid for employment with INS authorization only. She asked Mr. Bannock, "Is that a document that you would accept for purposes of identification in issuing a driver's license?" 9:26:23 AM MR. BANNOCK said, "We have defined our list into primary and secondary. You will be forwarded a copy of that list. Social security ... cards are considered a secondary item, and [yes], it would be accepted." 9:26:45 AM REPRESENTATIVE LYNN remarked the committee is considering the merits and possible demerits of HB 290; the DMV is not on trial. Second, he stated that the issue is simple and a matter of common sense: "Either we comply with the ... Real ID Act, or we do not, whether we like that Act or not. ... In addition, we're either present legally in the U.S. and, by extension, Alaska, or not. And if we're not here legally, we don't have a right to ... any privilege - driver's license or anything else." 9:27:31 AM CHAIR SEATON requested that a committee member offer Amendment 1 so that it is available for the public's perusal. 9:27:43 AM REPRESENTATIVE GRUENBERG moved to adopt Amendment 1, labeled 24- LS0981\Y.2, Luckhaupt/Cook, 4/3/06, which read as follows: Page 1, line 5: Delete "not" Page 1, line 6: Delete "not" Page 1, line 10: Delete all material. Insert "(i) The department may issue an" Page 2, following line 8: Insert a new subsection to read: "(j) The department may issue an identification card under (a) of this section to a person who does not present documentary evidence under (h) or (i) of this section. The identification card must be different in color from those issued under (h) or (i) of this section and must bear on its face the following notice: "This identification card may not be accepted by any federal agency for federal identification or any other official purpose."" Page 2, line 31: Delete "(7) [OR (8)]" Insert "or (7) [(8)]" Page 3, line 1: Delete "; or" Insert "." Page 3, line 2, through page 4, line 1: Delete all material and insert: "* Sec. 3. AS 28.15 is amended by adding a new section to read: Sec. 28.15.033. Form of drivers' licenses. (a) The department shall issue, renew, or reinstate to an otherwise qualified person a driver's license that may be used as identification by a federal agency if the person presents to the department valid documentary evidence that the person is a citizen of the United States, a national of the United States, a legal permanent resident of the United States, or a conditional resident alien of the United States. A person who is seeking a renewal of, duplicate of, or change of legal name on a license is presumed to meet the requirements of this subsection if the license has not expired or been cancelled, suspended, or revoked and the person has not been disqualified from obtaining a license. If the department has been notified by a local, state, or federal government agency that the person seeking a renewal of, duplicate of, or change of legal name on a license is not a citizen of the United States or is not legally in the United States, then the presumption available in this subsection does not apply. The department may by regulation specify what is valid, documentary evidence under this subsection, except that the department may not specify that a matricula consular card is valid, documentary evidence. (b) The department shall issue, renew, or reinstate to an otherwise qualified person a driver's license that may be used as identification by a federal agency if the person presents to the department in person valid, documentary evidence of the person's legal status and presence in the United States. A license issued under this subsection may be renewed only on presentation of valid, documentary evidence that the status by which the person qualified for the license has been extended by the proper United States government authority. A change of name for a license issued under this subsection may be made only on presentation of valid, documentary evidence that the person's name has been changed with regard to the status by which the person qualified for the license. A duplicate license for a license issued under this subsection may be issued only on presentation of valid, documentary evidence that the person's status by which the person qualified for the license remains valid and in effect. The department may by regulation specify what is valid, documentary evidence under this subsection, except that the department may not specify that a matricula consular card is valid, documentary evidence. (c) The department shall issue, renew, or reinstate a driver's license to an otherwise qualified person who does not present documentary evidence under (a) or (b) of this section. The license must be different in color from those issued under (a) or (b) of this section and must clearly bear on its face the following notice: "This driver's license may not be accepted by any federal agency for federal identification or any other official purpose."" Renumber the following bill sections accordingly. Page 4, line 9: Delete "AS 28.15.031(b)(8)(B)" Insert "AS 28.15.033(b)" 9:28:10 AM REPRESENTATIVE LYNN AND CHAIR SEATON objected. 9:28:19 AM CHAIR SEATON announced that HB 290 was heard and held. DRAFT
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